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Post by solusphere on Apr 3, 2013 23:53:44 GMT -8
I've been giving some thought to possible additions to the material roster that I think could be both balanced and entertaining. Hopefully you'll find at least a couple of the ideas useful!
1: Aerogel
Spell/Wand effect: Spells leave a trail similar to Spider Silk, but the trail is non damaging and acts as a solid surface when walked on, as well as blocking shots. This dissolves within seconds, with higher grades lasting longer. You could use this to make defensive walls or shells in emergencies, as well as using it as a navigational aid. It could have some very interesting interactions with certain other materials, such as the Boomerang.
Robe Effect: Decrease effective player gravity. Cannot go into the negatives.
2: Model Rocket
Spell/Wand Effect: Spell projectiles gain an acceleration curve, starting off at barely a crawl, but rapidly speeding up until they are going much faster than a standard projectile. Damage is also modified accordingly (this can probably simply be calculated as a function of projectile lifetime) doing much less damage than a standard shot at first, but significantly increased damage at high speeds.
Robe Effect: When at low mana, the player gains increased movement speed. Higher grades increase the requisite mana level and increase the speed bonus.
3: Tiny Mirror
Spell/Wand Effect: Spell is duplicated, and cast both in the direction the player is facing, and the exact opposite direction. Decreases spell damage and effectiveness, with higher grades reducing the penalty. Could have interesting synergies with Slime Heart, Optic Lens, Illusion Dust and Seashell, among others.
Robe Effect: Whenever a spell is cast, there is a small chance that the mana cost of the spell will be inverted, providing the player with an amount of mana equal to the spell's cost. Higher grades increase the chance.
I'll add more as I think of them!
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Splininka
Magicmaker Developer
Game Designer
Posts: 7
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Post by Splininka on Apr 6, 2013 12:33:03 GMT -8
These are some really cool ideas. Before I get in too deep, keep in mind that game development is a very iterative process. That means that anything I say now is subject to change (even my own opinion). So instead of going through each suggestion like a checklist and saying yes or no, I'll discuss the possibilities and where it might fit in the game if it were to be implemented.
1: Aerogel
Spell/Wand: This is a really cool movement augmenting effect. I'm a sucker for anything that can be creatively leveraged for multiple uses, so being able to create walkways and shield yourself from projectiles is a huge win in my eyes. (The first thing I would do with this is add Ton of Bricks and Slime Heart to create a projectile blocking wall). I also really like the fact that it allows the player to access new areas without simply letting them jump higher. As much as I like it, the biggest hurdle with this spell is the fact that it creates dynamic physics. Magicmaker was designed to be grid based to simplify physics calculations, so we would have to drastically revamp our physics engine to support it exactly as described. It could still possibly be made using a series of floating platforms rather than a smooth trail.
Robe: We already have a slow fall robe effect with the Harpy Feather. Given that we could also equip a Fairy Wing to add double jump, the goal of jumping higher and falling slower is already attainable. If I were to try come up with a robe to fit the above spell, I would stretch the theme of Aerogel into something different. For example, if we called the material "Leprechaun's Gold" we could make the trail a magic rainbow. With the new theme, we could then say that the robe effect makes enemies drop more money.
2: Model Rocket
Spell/Wand: We've experimented with what we called "delay shot" in the past. The effect is approximately the same: You shoot in a direction, but the projectile arrives later than normal. We had a hard time coming up with a good reason to equip it other than make the damage higher, and that felt a little arbitrary. By adding an acceleration to it and making the damage boost scale, it makes landing very distant shots more difficult and that much more satisfying. My first experiment with this spell would be adding a Seashell and Chaos Butterfly. The initial slow would give the other effects time to ramp up in their power.
Robe: We don't currently have anything that scales off of low mana, and I do like the thematic cohesion of starting of slow, but speeding up over time (as you cast spells). I'm always a little nervous about increasing move speed since we already have a lot of ways to do it. Is there a good reason to equip this over the Quicksilver Gear that always gives you the bonus? If that boost was even larger to account for the fact it's not always on, would a haste spell on low mana be too fast for the player to reasonably control? It's always tricky when adding effects that can be combined in super powerful ways, because we ideally want every combination to be fun and effective without being too game breaking.
3: Tiny Mirror
Spell/Wand: It's kind of funny. I could see us adding this material if we had thought of it earlier in the development process. Unfortunately it has a lot of overlap with things we already have. When it comes down to it, it's Illusion Dust with the angle between the duplicate shots set to be very large. At the same time, the feel of it is very different when a spell is launched both in front and behind you, even if the output is technically the same. To get that same feel and still avoid being too similar to Illusion Dust, I would say that the mirror doesn't create a duplicate spell cast, but has a backblast in a short area behind the player. You can now hit people on both sides of you, but you have to decide which direction to shoot since both ways don't do the exact same thing.
Robe: This fits the theme well and has a neat risk/reward to it, but it would be really hard to get numbers that feel good without being overpowered. This would be the sort of effect I would feel comfortable seeing as a small part in a large skill tree like in Diablo or World of Warcraft. The reason is the relative cost to the player for the effect. Say you invest 3 points into it for a 3% chance. It's not a huge investment and you will feel really great when you just barely survive because you got the mana boost you needed to cast that clutch spell. In Magicmaker, you are investing at least 33% of your available robe slots. That means that we need to make that investment worth it, otherwise there would be no reason to use that material. I'm also personally scared of any mana regenerating effects because we've had some struggles with balancing those in the past. Adding another one in the mix is something that I'm not super eager to do.
Thanks for all the cool feedback. I enjoy having design discussions whenever I have the time to belt out a huge wall of text.
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Post by solifuge on May 3, 2013 22:57:06 GMT -8
Here's a few other material ideas, to help flesh out still-vacant Alchemy Combinations:
Pearl, or Bubble:
Creates defensive orbs circling the player (1-5 depending on grade) which suspend their normal effect until they collide with an enemy. The spell then discharges from the orb (on a vector in line with the player toward the orb). The orbs can also be discharged early by casting another spell, launching projectiles in all directions. On a robe, it increases the likelihood of gold and drops (or higher-grade drops).
Hornet Nest, Cloud Mote, or Dust Bunny:
Spell creates a lingering AoE where cast (alternatively wherever the projectile ends) which deals damage over time, akin to the Optic Lens beam. Duration and diameter determined by Grade. On a robe, it increases maximum jump height per jump, and/or changes jumps into a cannon-like arc guided by arrow keys for fast lateral movement (synergy with Slime Heart elasticity or Mid-Air Jumps).
Tortoise Shell (Blue and/or winged, for the sake of a Mario Gag?):
Decreases projectile speed and frequency for a significant increase in damage/effect (alternatively, increase in speed/effectiveness over time, as with the Toy Rocket idea). On robes, reduces all incoming damage by a percentage (Chaos Butterfly applies this buff, but I don't believe any material grants just it yet.)
Harpoon, or Fishhook:
Projectile pulls the character toward the point of collision, with force depending on level. Useful for scaling difficult terrain, closing distance with foes, as synergy for Slime Heart Elasticity, and acts as an inverse of Repulse. On robes, allows wall-sticking and wall-jumping.
Caltrop, Spike, or Mousetrap:
When cast, the spell is suspended as a stationary trap with increased damage/effect. Traps are either suspended (as with Pearl/Bubble) until struck by an enemy, or are created as a normal projectile without velocity. Traps remain for a limited time before discharging or disappearing, with duration and damage/effect increase depending on grade. On robes, it allows for a weak Jump Attack (either like Metroid's Screw-Attack, or Mario's Goomba-Stomp).
Splinter, Needle, or Sparkler:
The parent projectile throws off weaker splinter projectiles over time. Splinters have reduced damage and effect, with splinters-per-second and damage/effectiveness based on grade. On a robe, it returns damage to enemies who damage/collide with you, determined by Grade.
Instant Plaster/Clay/Glass:
The projectile creates temporary solid material in a trail, presenting a barrier to projectiles and enemies, and acting as a platform to reach difficult areas. Material is created in 1x1 tile cubes, and can imprison enemies caught within. Lifespan of material based on Grade.
P.S. I think Seashell and Illusion Dust could use a bit more diversification in how they behave. Seashell also can't be used against most bosses without specific supporting materials, due to its long range requirement, and the limited area of the boss arenas. Here's a concept for a possible rework, to address these things.
Seashell:
Projectile fissures over time, up to 3 times (up to 8 projectiles). Damage and effects are reduced slightly with each split. Time required to split, and damage/effect reduction are based on grade. This way, it can be used strategically up close for full power, while still building over time with range, though its effectiveness decreases with each split to make up for its ability to multi-target.
F - Splits every 2 seconds. Damage/Effect reduced 50% per split.
D - Splits every 1.75 seconds. Damage/Effect reduced 25% per split.
C - Splits every 1.50 seconds. Damage/Effect reduced 16.7% per split.
B - Splits every 1.25 second. Damage/Effect reduced 11.1% per split.
A - Splits every 1 second. Damage/Effect reduced 9.1% per split.
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Post by frumple on May 4, 2013 12:16:52 GMT -8
Had a fairly simple thought for a material... not sure about name, but the effect is straightforward enough. A "wonder" material (ala wands of wonder from various roguelikes and elsewhere), that randomly mimics other materials when used. For those who are feeling like spicing things up a bit, heh. It'd probably change after each use on spells, but on a timer for robes (alternately, more passive robe effects, such as mana regen, would be on a timer, but more active stuff like lightning rod would swap after eating a shot).
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Post by Aoi on May 4, 2013 13:18:55 GMT -8
I like that version of the seashell-- it gives it a much more dynamic feeling shotgun effect. Though, personally, I'd like to see it divide infinitely with the end result being they do effectively nothing.
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Post by eagleon on May 5, 2013 0:30:24 GMT -8
First post, let me first say that I absolutely -love- this game, even as it is now. Enough to do some challenge-mode gaming (a random spell/robe run), which I usually never have the patience for. Frumple (hello there), I'd like the Wonder material a lot better if it applied two effects instead. Perhaps on a timer, like the dual-cast thing, or on a percentage chance decreasing/increasing with higher level material. Basically my gripe would be that, as fun as it may be, I'd never use it - there are too many spell combinations that are next to useless for reliable damage. I think having that would balance the crap-factor out much better. And yes, an all-Wonder spell could be insanely powerful, but it could also end up doing something useless like boomerang/melee/light/manacrystal/butterfly/gravity/slow/knockback (and now I want to see that) Materials  I love the ones that have so many effects on the behavior of others, so that's what mine are focused on. Mana Magnet - On spells, this would attract projectiles to a center, non-affected component, including the spell's if they split, or other ones you happen to cast. Think a sort of swarming behavior, diverting enemy projectiles chaotically and also allowing you to guide a larger, non-guided projectile into an opponent using your wand. It would also provide an alternative to homing for splitting spells, which can be a disaster to use in particular with the Desert boss. For robes, it would reverse, pushing projectiles away, accelerating your own somewhat and providing an unreliable shield against others Mimic Ichor - On hit, creates a Lure which attracts enemies. Only one Lure can be created at a time, to avoid confusing the game. On contact or after no contact for a certain period, the rest of the spell's effects are used to create a new projectile(s). If that projectile kills an enemy, a new Lure is created where that enemy stood. For robes, capture enemy projectiles and send them out with the next spell cast, causing damage (though I don't know if your damage system is on a unified scale with the player's) If they're kept too long, they go through the defense normally. Dimensional Rift - For spells, this would phase the opponent out of existence for a short period, applying the rest of the effects immediately before they do. This would allow you time to prepare an additional attack if you were low on mana, for instance, and would make Vacuum useful in a guided laser spell, which is otherwise a great way to kill yourself. For robes, increases the power of all movement materials somewhat (knockback, bounce, teleport, etc. etc.) Not enough to be better than adding an additional one of those, but enough to be better if your strategy combines more than one of them at a time. An outlier, maybe better as an artifact: Serpent Scale - Amplifies a spell's power depending on how much loot is on screen. For robes, increase passive effects (increased MP, HP, speed, etc) based on this. |
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Post by foreverwolf on May 5, 2013 1:45:56 GMT -8
Had a fairly simple thought for a material... not sure about name, but the effect is straightforward enough. A "wonder" material (ala wands of wonder from various roguelikes and elsewhere), that randomly mimics other materials when used. For those who are feeling like spicing things up a bit, heh. It'd probably change after each use on spells, but on a timer for robes (alternately, more passive robe effects, such as mana regen, would be on a timer, but more active stuff like lightning rod would swap after eating a shot). I feel a good name for this would be Mimic Tooth. |
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twi
Student
Posts: 5
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Post by twi on May 12, 2013 17:30:40 GMT -8
I figure this is as good a place as any to post some (questionably thought out) ideas of this kind, sooo...
1. Banshee X (not sure what the X is)
Spell/wand effect: Confuses enemies it hits, causing them to do the opposite of what they normally would for a little while (ie, move and attack in the opposite direction). Higher grade would have longer duration.
Robe effect: Creates a small aura that sometimes frightens enemies, causing them to move away (similar to Shade Spirit spell effect). Higher grade means higher chance and/or larger radius.
2. Cloud in a Bottle/ Annoying Mist
Spell/wand effect: Causes the spell to spread out in a cloud of small, slow-moving projectiles that gradually deviate from their straight paths. Higher grade reduces the deviation and increases the speed. (Note: I'm not sure how this'd work with Optic Lens- maybe the projectiles spawn along the laser beam? Or maybe just have beams travel the paths that projectiles would, but I could see that getting terribly graphics-intensive.)
Robe effect: Increases spellpower when airborne, with higher grades increasing the effect more.
3. Gust Bellows
Spell/wand effect: Projectiles move faster and hit harder the closer they are to a solid block, slowing down in the open. Higher grade increases the effect. (Think wind tunnel and such.) Alternatively, the opposite (faster and more powerful in open space, slower and weaker in confined areas) is also an option.
Robe effect: Allows for additional left-right movement in air, with higher grades amplifying this effect.
4. Loudspeaker
Spell/wand effect: Projectiles 'diffract' around corners and curves in terrain, but have limited overall lifetime, or perhaps have damage drop-off. Anything really to prevent them from curving around the entire level. Higher grades allow them to turn more sharply.
Robe effect: Increased knockback for everything!
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Post by foreverwolf on May 14, 2013 22:56:11 GMT -8
It has dawned upon me that we are lacking Duct Tape. I have been channeling a large portion of my energies to working out how it could be used as a spell component. Perhaps...
Duct Tape:
Spell/Wand effect: For X amount of time, any enemies which touch the spell are held in place.
Alternate: Creates a small trail which stops projectiles, but leaves creatures unhindered. (Possibly both enemy and player projectiles?)
Robe effect: Dampens damage from all sources.
I feel the first spell effect would be useful for getting a lot of enemies to group up so you can hit them with a fire spell, or could be used for holding them while you escape, and in combination with a trail effect it would form a kind of web, so it could be used to block a corridor.
The second effect would be useful in the Castle, when you have a lot of skeletons lobbing bones at you, but would have little value or entertainment outside of that.
As for the robe effect... Somebody improve that, please? I've never been the best at ideas, and that's one of the worse ones. I feel like it should be something to do with sticking, but Sticky Slime already fills the quota of sticking to walls and ceilings.
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twi
Student
Posts: 5
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Post by twi on May 15, 2013 8:34:17 GMT -8
It has dawned upon me that we are lacking Duct Tape. I have been channeling a large portion of my energies to working out how it could be used as a spell component. Perhaps... Duct Tape: Spell/Wand effect: For X amount of time, any enemies which touch the spell are held in place. Alternate: Creates a small trail which stops projectiles, but leaves creatures unhindered. (Possibly both enemy and player projectiles?) Robe effect: Dampens damage from all sources. I feel the first spell effect would be useful for getting a lot of enemies to group up so you can hit them with a fire spell, or could be used for holding them while you escape, and in combination with a trail effect it would form a kind of web, so it could be used to block a corridor. The second effect would be useful in the Castle, when you have a lot of skeletons lobbing bones at you, but would have little value or entertainment outside of that. As for the robe effect... Somebody improve that, please? I've never been the best at ideas, and that's one of the worse ones. I feel like it should be something to do with sticking, but Sticky Slime already fills the quota of sticking to walls and ceilings. Well, if you can't do sticking, do something else! Not that I have much in the way of better ideas. A slow field, perhaps. Or connecting spells together somehow, but that seems more appropriate for, well, a spell/wand effect. Alternatively, you could go for 'duct tape as rope' and have a grappling hook of some sort, but that seems a bit odd. |
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Post by Anonymous on May 15, 2013 20:59:17 GMT -8
I don't think a duct tape material is really necessary. The easiest way to add it is by swapping sticky slime out for it. You could also have it make the spell stick to the opponent, though I'm not exactly sure how that would work. I'd imagine a lot of fun could be had with duct tape, explosive powder, and shade spirit. The duct tape would make it stick to an opponent, the explosive powder would make it explode after being attached for some time, and the shade spirit would make your little suicide bomber run away from you and toward other enemies. Other interactions could include a crystal ball spell which picks up enemies and throws them at other enemies (for damage), a spider silk trail that follows the enemy's path, adding gravity to your opponents with bricks, and making them bounce all over the place with a slime heart. But I'm not sure how the other interactions would work, and to be honest this seems like a hard and obnoxious thing to program.
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Post by dekeon on Jun 1, 2013 12:22:49 GMT -8
This is sort of a question/suggestion combo, heh. Would it be possible to have materials create alternate effects when used multiple times in a spell/wand/robe? Like the material that leaves behind illusion clone bombs when used on the robe. Rather than increasing the duration and damage of the clones when using two of that material, could you say, make them charge at the nearest enemy kamikaze style instead? (Also, I can't think of the name of that material for the life of me atm sorry)
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Post by Reia on Mar 2, 2015 4:20:41 GMT -8
I thought of two new materials, but I'm really bad with finding good names. So I'll just describe what they do. The first one as mentioned above, creates a surface which can act as an AOE. It could have very fun effects if combined with other materials: With Bouncy Ball, it can create a trampoline, where everything bounces off. It can be used to reach higher platforms, or to keep the opponents bouncing around, unable to aim. With Vacuum Cleaner, it could suck enemies onto the surface and reduce their walking speed with Evercold Ice. Sundial could make you faster the longer you run on the surface, kind of like slipping on ice. Firecrystal would create a burning surface etc.. The higher the rank, the wider the surface. The second material is heavily inspired by anime moves such as Genkidama and Terra Force. You basically hold the button down to increase the size of the sphere. Doing that will have benefits and disadvantages. While channeling/ charging the spell, you would take extra incoming damage from opponents, you can't move, and robe effects are reduced. Also, the more you charge it, the slower the projectile will get. (Which can be a really good thing combined with Miniature Sun!). The benefits are a bigger hitbox, increased damage and/ or effects. I can already think of cool combinations such as a black hole: "Growing sun"+Vacuum Cleaner+Fire Crystal/Miniature Sun+Owlbear Trap. Another one could be "Growing Sun"+Miniature Sun+Explosive Powder+Diamond. Combined with optic lens, it would create a wider and longer laser, add to that Repulsor Energy for some nice dramatic effects!  I also love Solusphere's idea of creating surfaces/ walls/ platforms with Aerogel. |
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Post by Reia on Mar 2, 2015 4:23:12 GMT -8
I thought of two new materials, but I'm really bad with finding good names. So I'll just describe what they do. The first one as mentioned above, creates a surface which can act as an AOE. It could have very fun effects if combined with other materials: With Bouncy Ball, it can create a trampoline, where everything bounces off. It can be used to reach higher platforms, or to keep the opponents bouncing around, unable to aim. With Vacuum Cleaner, it could suck enemies onto the surface and reduce their walking speed with Evercold Ice. Sundial could make you faster the longer you run on the surface, kind of like slipping on ice. Firecrystal would create a burning surface etc.. The higher the rank, the wider the surface. The second material is heavily inspired by anime moves such as Genkidama and Terra Force. You basically hold the button down to increase the size of the sphere. Doing that will have benefits and disadvantages. While channeling/ charging the spell, you would take extra incoming damage from opponents, you can't move, and robe effects are reduced. Also, the more you charge it, the slower the projectile will get. (Which can be a really good thing combined with Miniature Sun!). The benefits are a bigger hitbox, increased damage and/ or effects. I can already think of cool combinations such as a black hole: "Growing sun"+Vacuum Cleaner+Fire Crystal/Miniature Sun+Owlbear Trap. Another one could be "Growing Sun"+Miniature Sun+Explosive Powder+Diamond. Combined with optic lens, it would create a wider and longer laser, add to that Repulsor Energy for some nice dramatic effects! I also love Solusphere's idea of creating surfaces/ walls/ platforms with Aerogel. I forgot to mention that "Growing Sun"'s initial damage is lower than normal without charging. |
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Laddo D
Magicmaker Developer
Magicmaker Maker
Posts: 215
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Post by Laddo D on Mar 3, 2015 10:24:54 GMT -8
The issue I have with the surface material is that it sounds like something that will have a unique effect for each material. It could take anywhere between 3-6 weeks to implement all the effects. This is an awful lot of work for one material! Also, from a design standpoint, we want every material to do the same thing on every spell (for example, bouncy ball always makes the spell bounce off walls).
I do really like the charge material, I think it sounds very exciting! Especially the risk/reward component where you become very vulnerable while charging.
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I love the ones that have so many effects on the behavior of others, so that's what mine are focused on.
